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What Goes Into Producing a National Sports Talk Show?

Jason Barrett

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There are a lot of people in the sports radio industry who assume that creating a national sports talk show is simple. How could it not be right?

After all, you can talk about anything you want, you work for a major network and receive tons of promotion, every team and agent gives you every guest you want, your hosts know everything there is to know about sports and need little guidance, and the show is carried all over the country by hundreds of radio stations. and the audience is so large that there’s never any danger of the program failing.

While there are many benefits that come from working on a national program, putting it together, and making it great is a lot harder than you think.

One thing I learned quickly when I worked in network radio between 2004-2006 is that having knowledge of how to do a lot of things in radio is nice, but truly being GREAT at one or two of them is much more important.

zaslouI remember arriving at ESPN Radio and when my bosses Louise Cornetta and Dave Zaslowsky wanted me to work with my hosts on creating strong topics, and writing teases, I thought “that’s all you want me to do“?

I had worked in local radio prior to that for 6 years, and during that time I had hosted, booked guests, screened calls, ran boards, cut audio, reported, delivered updates, programmed a station and coached a small staff, and even sold advertising. Heck, there were times when I had to host my show and run the board while also screening phone calls.

I was so used to doing so many things (this occurs in a lot of local radio stations still today) that I felt I could pick up more slack. What I didn’t realize though, was that although I knew how to do many of those things, I hadn’t perfected many of them.

Being honest with myself, I realized that if I was a phenomenal talk show host, I’d be hosting on the network, not producing. I also knew my sound and ability to do updates were nowhere near the quality of incredible anchors like Jay Reynolds, Marc Kestecher, “The Duke” Dan Davis, and John Stashower.

When it came to producing, although I felt I had great instincts, a bulldog mentality to land guests, and a good idea of how to build a show and be creative, I still had yet to figure out what my strengths and weaknesses were.

I followed the advice of Dave and Louise, and started working alongside Ray Necci (who’s featured in this story), and concentrated a lot on improving my topic development, and teases. Ray was a tremendous teacher, and challenged me often, and I enjoyed it because we worked well together, and I could feel myself getting better.

I discovered during this time that I had a knack for landing top notch guests, and I felt it was one way I could make a strong impression on my hosts and bosses. Anytime I produced a show, I wanted to create one moment in the program that was good enough to appear on SportsCenter or be the front page story on ESPN.com. While that didn’t happen every time, it was the goal each time I went to work.

I was also lucky enough to work with some great personalities such as Dan Patrick,  John Seibel, Chuck Wilson, Doug Gottlieb, Freddie Coleman, John Rooke and Amy Lawrence who trusted my instincts on guest booking, worked with me on building good topics, and either relied on my teases or took what I gave them and spun it into their own words to make it sound good.

I learned that to produce a national show successfully, you’ve got to be versatile, a great leader, and a manager who’s willing to delegate. Most national shows have a staff assigned to them, and everyone behind the scenes has a role. The producer works closely with the talent to strategize the program, and the support staff report to the producer to make sure they have what they need for the program to succeed.

Unlike local radio where some show plans get thrown together quickly and segments are built off of the audience’s reaction to a host’s monologue, most national programs have a very structured layout that has been created off of hours of discussion and preparation.

There’s conscious thought given to how often a major story gets discussed during a 3-4 hour show, guests are lined up based on what matters most that day, not who is available, and teases are written in advance to support the content and keep listeners engaged. Interviews may even be taped and edited to sound as tight as possible, and everyone is focused on the content and ready to change gears if something develops that warrants attention.

The challenges that many national shows face are something often beyond their control – changing the mindset of local sports radio operators,  finding a way to become part of the local station instead of being seen as the show that originates from another part of the country, and having ratings success in certain markets while not performing as high in others.

Nobody has a playbook that can promise success, but when a national show is being added to a local sports radio station, I believe there are a few critical things that have to be analyzed to make sure it’s a good fit.

  1. Do the hosts focus a majority of their content on subjects that appeal to the local audience?
  2. How will the radio station localize the show so it sounds connected, not removed from the rest of the programming? This means using the liners wisely inside the show, having your talent talk about content from the show as if it was created by another local host on the radio station, creating promos that highlight the show’s coverage of local topics, and utilizing the same voice talent on the station that you’d hear during the national content.
  3. What are the national hosts willing to do to strengthen the bond with the station? Will they customize liners? Make client calls? Commit to a local appearance? Call-in to the other local shows? Conduct social media chats with local fans?
  4. How much salary is being saved by using a national program vs. local hosts, and is the ratings/sales end of the business going to benefit or suffer by going this route?
  5. Who is the local market sports radio competitor, where do they rank, and what mix of programming will give the radio station the best chance to win versus the competition?

lnAs someone who’s programmed stations with and without national programs, I can tell you that all of those factors play into decision making. While each station and market has its own unique challenges, network folks are trying to appeal to hundreds of stations, and they have to make calls based on what has mass appeal.

I felt it’d be helpful to gain an understanding of how some top national shows think and operate, and what their challenges are in creating a program that delivers content for the masses, but depends on distribution from local radio stations.

Each of these guys I’ve had the privilege of knowing for quite some time, and they’ve all had experience working with multiple high profile shows and personalities. They’re very good at what they do, and I believe you’ll gain some insight from their feedback below.

  • Ray Necci – Multi-Platform Content Program Director at ESPN Radio – Also produced Mike and Mike, Tony Kornheiser, Dan Patrick, SVP & Russillo, and many other ESPN Radio shows during his sixteen year tenure with the network.
  • Jon Goulet – Producer of “The Herd” with Colin Cowherd on FS1 and Fox Sports Radio – Previously worked with Colin at ESPN Radio plus served as Executive Producer of 95.7 The Game in San Francisco.
  • Rob “Stats” GuerreraProducer of “Pro Football Talk LIVE with Mike Florio” on NBC Sports Radio – Also served as Producer of “The Erik Kuselias Show” for NBC Sports Radio and spent close to seven years at ESPN Radio, including working with Mike and Mike.

What is the most fun part of producing a national sports talk show?

Goulet: I think it’s working with some of the most talented people in the industry. Host, producers, production people and management. They’re all people who bring incredible experience and talent to the show. It makes the show great and allows me to learn from them.

statsGuerrera: The most fun part of producing a national show is the chance to shape the national conversation about the stories of the day. That isn’t to say that local shows don’t do that as well, but the bigger platform gives national shows a better chance to do that more consistently. I also like the freedom to discuss a wider range of topics rather than being obligated to concentrate on what is going on in any particular area of the country.

Necci: The variety. You’ve got the entire world of sports to choose from, and it’s almost impossible to get bored.

What goes into producing your show each day and how many hours do you spend on it?

Guerrera: Nothing takes up a bigger portion of my day than communication. My host, Mike Florio, broadcasts from his home studio in West Virginia, so it’s like we’re doing a remote broadcast every day. Mike is also working on his website, ProFootballTalk.com, during the day, so we have to make the extra effort to make sure we’re on the same page for the day’s show.

Apart from that, for me it’s topic development. There’s nothing else more important. What are the angles to a story? How does it impact other people? What questions should we be asking the people in power? How does this mesh with what happened or what was said before? Our biggest determinate of success will always be how many people we can get on the end of that line, and how long we can keep them there. Compelling topics are how we do that.

necci3Necci: Putting an amount of time into producing a national show is almost impossible to answer. Part of this depends on the size of the staff involved. Working with Tony Kornheiser, there were two of us on the production team working on topic generation, production, bits, guest booking, sales obligations, etc. Working with Mike & Mike, we have more resources, but also many more obligations. Personally, I believe that you’re always working in some way towards the show. Whether it’s directly related to sports or if it’s elements of your life that could make good conversation on-air, you always have to keep the show in mind.

Most recently with Mike & Mike, I would be in the office 8-10 hours a day. This included prep, show execution, post show meetings, sales obligations, and preparation for future shows. Then in the afternoon/evening, everyone involved with the show would start exchanging guest ideas, stories and possible topics. This continued into the night as games were played. The specific responsibilities are divided between the producer, AP, PA, booker, etc. but it’s the responsibility of the producer to make sure everyone is meeting expectations.

Goulet: My main focus on The Herd is content. Since making the move to FOX, we have a much larger staff so I don’t have to worry about social media or promos. For the three hours leading up to the show I’m more of a writer than anything else. While I do produce some bits, cut audio, get music and do some podcasting, most of my time is focused on content.

How do you determine if a topic has broad enough appeal to a nationwide audience?

Necci: We usually start with what interests the hosts and the people on the show. Your passion will come across, and if your audience knows you’re interested, they may be willing to come along for the ride on something that doesn’t directly play in their backyard. There is also consideration placed on our key markets, and if you’re truly a national show, then that means being aware of the news in major cities across the different timezones.

goulet3Goulet: The key is to find things that involve macro issues or teams. Things like major college football, the NFL, or LeBron work wherever you are. In the end it still comes down to how passionate your host is about a topic. If that passion involves something smaller or a less popular team, then we need to broaden that topic out so other fans can relate to it.

Guerrera: To me, there aren’t two separate categories of stories. Most of the time I don’t ask if a topic is broad enough for a national audience. I ask, “How do we make this topic broad enough for a national audience”? I have the luxury of working on an NFL show, which makes this part of the job easier. Fantasy football makes almost anything we do relevant nationally. Odell Beckham Jr.’s health last week wouldn’t have played outside of NY and Philadelphia years ago, but now it’s of great national interest because he’s on fantasy teams from sea to shining sea. That doesn’t mean we spend an entire segment on it, but it does mean the rules are a little different for us.

When creating the rundown for your show, how much of a focus do you place on targeting material that will appeal to your larger markets?

Goulet: It plays a big factor in determining what we discuss. Los Angeles is our biggest affiliate so we will look to find topics that appeal to that audience. You can’t force it though. If nothing is happening in a market you can’t pretend that it’s compelling.

Guerrera: Because we’re less than a year old, our markets are changing a lot throughout the the year. Right now my goal is to always appeal to the broadest part of the audience. If those stories interest the bigger markets, great, but I won’t force feed anything because it wouldn’t be authentic. A wise man once told me, you can’t out-local the locals.

necci2Necci: I like to think it’s something we consider, but we don’t let dictate our content. When the Mets & Cubs faced off in the NLCS, we may have slightly increased the time spent talking baseball, but the action on the field needs to be compelling. A better example may be when the Rangers & Kings met in the Stanley Cup Final. We don’t spend much time on the NHL during the long regular season, but when it’s important for our affiliates and the stakes are raised, we incorporate it into our plans. If there’s a conversation you plan to hit once and it involves the West Coast, we may try to do it later in the show to reach the most people. Also, as with most national shows, not every market takes the full four hour show, so that’s also something to consider.

As it pertains to the creative process, who makes the final decision on what will be discussed and when?

Guerrera: Most of the time, what your talent is interested in is what’s good for the show. People respond to genuine passion. That said, if they’re really in love with a topic that’s out there, the producer must step in. You have to explain why doing, or not doing, a certain topic is good for the audience, and ultimately, good for the show. The hardest thing to get talent to buy into is submission to the listeners. We don’t do the show for our bosses, or our friends in the industry, and especially not for ourselves. We do it for the audience. When you put them first, the rest is easy.

Necci: I’m sure this is very different for every show. If a host’s name is on the show, they obviously feel that they’re putting themselves out there and should have the last word in the process. The most successful shows make those decisions together. I don’t believe in forcing a talent to discuss a topic, because that almost always comes across in the presentation, but there are times when you ask them to trust you and recognize your reasoning. Building that trust is essential. It takes time and often means taking risks. Every time you’re right, you take on more of the responsibility. Equally, when you’re wrong, you have to take the blame, and understand that the next time will be a bigger challenge.

gouletGoulet: Colin will always have final say on topics. He’s very open to suggestions and ideas, but in the end he’s the one who is doing them on the air. He is unique in that he doesn’t have teams of his own that he ends up circling back to, so we don’t have to try and steer him away from topics. He is generally interested in what the majority of the audience is interested in.

With television heavily involved in the reach, branding, and strategy of most programs and personalities, how do you separate what will be best for the radio show vs. what’s best for TV? When conflicts arise, how do you settle them?

Necci: In the past, the simulcasts I worked with were radio content first and TV followed along as much as they were able to. With Mike & Mike, we have made a major transition over the last 18 months towards merging the presentation. This is probably best reflected in my current position, Multi-Platform Content Director. With everything we do, we consider how it will play on all formats. We’ve increased communication, look to merge resources, and try to evolve the daily process to improve the overall brand. Obviously, that means compromise and not everyone involved will be thrilled by the decisions made, but we’re all working towards the same goal.

Goulet: As a radio producer I have to focus on radio. While I’ll make suggestions for TV or try and help with ideas, its not my main focus. There is an entire staff of more qualified people for that. Colin considers his show a radio show first, so radio always has the priority. I look at the TV side as a great way to reach other people. Since our show is new to FOX, we don’t have as many affiliates, so FS1 provides a great way for people in other markets to hear us.

stats2Guerrera: My host has both a popular website and a TV show on NBCSN, so he is definitely stretched pretty thin. I am lucky that most of the content translates across platforms fairly easily. If I start to notice that his focus is taking him too far away from radio, I have always found the best thing to do is have an honest conversation about it. I make sure to offer up a couple of different things that I can do to make radio easier, but it’s important to let your talent know when they need concentrate on the task at hand.

How difficult is it to measure the success of the show when certain local markets respond strongly and others don’t?

Goulet: The best way to figure out if your show is working is if you think it sounds good. On a national show there is no definitive rating that tells you everything. If we talk Lakers our ratings will go up in LA, but might go down in Portland because Blazer fans don’t like the Lakers. If we know the show sounds good, has interesting topics, and is getting a reaction, then that means we’re doing something right. The numbers we get are more indicative of the fundamentals like teasing and clock management.

Guerrera: Our show is so new (less than a year old) that we’re focusing on ourselves more right now. Are we doing things the right way? That said, I do try and check in with the PDs at the bigger stations at least once a month to get their take on the show. I’m always looking for smart people that disagree with me.

necci4Necci: This is obviously difficult because every affiliate you work with (understandably) is only worried about their most recent results. I’ve worked on national shows in the past where one hour in a key market dictated success or failure. It’s infuriating and insane. Few Program Directors are willing to invest time in growing an audience locally for a national show.

Currently we mark our progress with overall impressions. How are we doing on terrestrial radio, television, and various digital medias. I’m still very interested in how we’re doing in individual markets, and want to help and try to assist when I can (communication, localization, TSL contests, affiliate calls, etc.), but the success of a program shouldn’t be decided by a guy who goes on vacation for a week or two and turns off his meter.

How big of a role do guests play in the daily creation of your show? Why is your strategy with guests set up the way that it is?

Guerrera: We operate under a very simple guest philosophy: Having no guest is better than a bad guest, or a guest for guest’s sake. Anyone we bring on has to add something to the conversation. If all they are is simply another person to talk to about a particular topic, you’re wasting everyone’s time.

Necci: I think guests are important for our show because people have come to expect “the biggest names” on ESPN and specifically Mike & Mike. That said, you should always be prepared to do a show with no guests, and many of the best/funniest/compelling moments come directly from the hosts. With our reach, and with the respect our hosts have earned, we offer a unique platform.

goulet2Goulet: Guests are an important part of the show. Because we’re national that means bigger name guests are willing to come on. That also raises the bar. We have to think big when we book people because they have to appeal to a national audience. Local writers or analysts don’t always work nationally because rarely do we talk about just one team. In the end guests are still only 25% of a show.

Why do most national shows avoid taking calls? Should there be more/less or the same amount of caller interaction in shows going forward?

Necci: There isn’t one answer here. I’ve always wanted to avoid “opening up the phones” and turning the show over to the audience. To me, it feels lazy. Speaking in a very general sense, I think many feel that they’re paying a national host, and expect him to carry a segment without needing to rack a scripted 3-minute take.

I do though appreciate the value in well screened calls on a specific topic. When I worked with Tony Kornheiser, the audience consisted of regular characters/contributors to the show. With SVP & Russillo, we exploited the idea of “open calls” in a feature called “WHAT?!?” and encouraged intelligent chaos. Currently on Mike & Mike, our calls generally come through our “Chatter Line” where we ask a question and play back the best answers.

Goulet: Calls work much better locally than nationally. They’re great during controversy or a huge news story, but other than that they should be used sparingly. Nationally there are more topics to get into which means we don’t have to drag things out and we can just move on to other topics. I think callers from local markets get defensive about their teams when a national host criticizes them. This apparently causes them to call hosts morons, explain how little they know, and then scream “roll tide”.

stats4Guerrera: Calls are like umpires: You only notice the bad ones. Even if the person screening them does everything right, the caller could still be terrible on the air. More than that, though, when sports talk radio began phone calls were how we interacted with people who weren’t in the same room. Now, with Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, texts, etc., that isn’t the case anymore. We can interact faster and with more people now than we ever could over the phone. Basically, today’s technology has made calls obsolete.

From where you sit, what can local stations do better to make a national program a heavier part of the radio station’s identity? What can your talent do better to make sure local stations succeed?

Goulet: Locals need to treat national programming as an asset not a detriment. They should talk about what the national host said just like they would another local host. Most importantly, don’t cut into national programming when a big local story breaks. A few years ago, “The Herd” got taken off the air in LA when a local team fired a coach. They decided to go with local programming. All that did was tell the audience that Colin wasn’t local. He was covering the story almost wall to wall anyway but nobody in LA heard it.

Guerrera: It takes buy-in from everyone. Stations need to actively make the shows and talent a part of their brand (including their website). The producer has to work with the local PD to create imaging and promos that are authentic to both sides (if you leave that up to the local market you won’t get truly authentic imaging). Finally, the talent has to do their part with liners, customized promos, and even guest appearances on that station’s local shows.

necci5Necci: In general, I don’t think people embrace what they have. Too often, I hear stations (on and off air) talk about their national & local shows. They are ALL your shows. Work with the show unit and the network to increase communication.

Are you willing to work in localization with liners and production? Is there an event that the show should broadcast from? Would calls from the hosts to local shows or important clients help? I’m not saying every national host can do every request, but are you asking those questions?

Also, don’t assume you know a show because you sampled it when it launched several years ago. The best shows are always evolving. The Mike and Mike show you hear now is very different from what the show was 5, 10 or 15 years ago. The Scott Van Pelt Show that grew out of his work with Mike Tirico wasn’t the same show as SVP & Russillo (which was a very different show in its first few years than it was in the final few).  The point is, be open to all your options.

Barrett Blogs

Barrett Sports Media To Launch Podcast Network

“We will start with a few new titles later this month, and add a few more in July.”

Jason Barrett

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To run a successful digital content and consulting company in 2022 it’s vital to explore new ways to grow business. There are certain paths that produce a higher return on investment than others, but by being active in multiple spaces, a brand has a stronger chance of staying strong and overcoming challenges when the unexpected occurs. Case in point, the pandemic in 2020.

As much as I love programming and consulting stations to assist with growing their over the air and digital impact, I consider myself first a business owner and strategist. Some have even called me an entrepreneur, and that works too. Just don’t call me a consultant because that’s only half of what I do. I’ve spent a lot of my time building relationships, listening to content, and studying brands and markets to help folks grow their business. Included in my education has been studying website content selection, Google and social media analytics, newsletter data, the event business, and the needs of partners and how to best serve them. As the world of media continues to evolve, I consider it my responsibility to stay informed and ready to pivot whenever it’s deemed necessary. That’s how brands and individuals survive and thrive.

If you look at the world of media today compared to just a decade ago, a lot has changed. It’s no secret during that period that podcasting has enjoyed a surge. Whether you review Edison Research, Jacobs Media, Amplifi Media, Spotify or another group’s results, the story is always the same – digital audio is growing and it’s expected to continue doing so. And that isn’t just related to content. It applies to advertising too. Gordon Borrell, IAB and eMarketer all have done the research to show you where future dollars are expected to move. I still believe it’s smart, valuable and effective for advertisers to market their products on a radio station’s airwaves, but digital is a key piece of the brand buy these days, and it’s not slowing down anytime soon.

Which brings me to today’s announcement.

If you were in New York City in March for our 2022 BSM Summit, you received a program at the show. Inside of one of the pages was a small ad (same image used atop this article) which said “Coming This Summer…The BSM Podcast Network…Stay Tuned For Details.” I had a few people ask ‘when is that happening, and what shows are you planning to create?’ and I kept the answers vague because I didn’t want to box ourselves in. I’ve spent a few months talking to people about joining us to help continue producing quality written content and improve our social media. Included in that process has been talking to members of our team and others on the outside about future opportunities creating podcasts for the Barrett Sports Media brand.

After examining the pluses and minuses, and listening and talking to a number of people, I’m excited to share that we are launching the BSM Podcast Network. We will start with a few new titles later this month, and add a few more in July. Demetri Ravanos will provide oversight of content execution, and assist with production and guest booking needs for selected pods. This is why we’ve been frequently promoting Editor and Social Media jobs with the brand. It’s hard to pursue new opportunities if you don’t have the right support.

The titles that will make up our initial offerings are each different in terms of content, host and presentation. First, we have Media Noise with Demetri Ravanos, which has produced over 75 episodes over the past year and a half. That show will continue in its current form, being released each Friday. Next will be the arrival of The Sports Talkers Podcast with Stephen Strom which will debut on Thursday June 23rd, the day of the NBA Draft. After that, The Producer’s Podcast with Brady Farkas will premiere on Wednesday June 29th. Then as we move into July, two more titles will be added, starting with a new sales focused podcast Seller to Seller with Jeff Caves. The final title to be added to the rotation will be The Jason Barrett Podcast which yours truly will host. The goal is to have five weekly programs distributed through our website and across all podcasting platforms by mid to late July.

I am excited about the creation of each of these podcasts but this won’t be the last of what we do. We’re already working on additional titles for late summer or early fall to ramp up our production to ten weekly shows. Once a few ideas and discussions get flushed out, I’ll have more news to share with you. I may consider adding even more to the mix too at some point. If you have an idea that you think would resonate with media professionals and aspiring broadcasters, email me by clicking here.

One thing I want to point out, this network will focuses exclusively on various areas of the sports media industry. We’ll leave mainstream sports conversations to the rest of the media universe. That’s not a space I’m interested in pursuing. We’ve focused on a niche since arriving on the scene in 2015 and have no plans to waver from it now.

Additionally, you may have noticed that we now refer to our company as ‘Barrett Media’. That’s because we are now involved in both sports and news media. That said, we are branding this as the BSM Podcast Network because the titles and content are sports media related. Maybe there will be a day when we introduce a BNM version of this, but right now, we’ve got to make sure the first one works right before exploring new territory.

Our commitment to delivering original industry news, features and opinions in print form remains unchanged. This is simply an opportunity to grow in an area where we’ve been less active. I know education for industry folks and those interested in entering the business is important. It’s why young people all across the country absorb mountains of debt to receive a college education. As valuable as those campus experiences might be, it’s a different world once you enter the broadcasting business.

What I’d like to remind folks is that we continue to make investments in the way we cover, consult, and discuss the media industry because others invest in us. It’d be easy to stockpile funds and enjoy a few more vacations but I’m not worried about personal wealth. I’m focused on building a brand that does meaningful work by benefitting those who earn a living in the media industry or are interested in one day doing so. As part of that process I’m trying to connect our audience to partners who provide products, services or programs that can benefit them.

Since starting this brand, we’ve written more than 18,000 articles. We now cover two formats and produce more than twenty five pieces of content per day. The opportunity to play a small role in keeping media members and future broadcasters informed is rewarding but we could not pay people to edit, write, and host podcasts here if others didn’t support us. For that I’m extremely grateful to those who do business with us either as a consulting client, website advertiser, Summit partner or through a monthly or annual membership. The only way to get better is to learn from others, and if our access to information, knowledge, relationships and professional opinions helps others and their brands, then that makes what we do worthwhile.

Thanks as always for the continued support. We appreciate that you read our content each day, and hope to be able to earn some of your listenership in the future too.

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Barrett Blogs

5 Mistakes To Avoid When Pursuing Media Jobs

“Demetri Ravanos and I have easily done 50-60 calls, and it’s been eye opening to see how many mistakes get made during the hiring process.”

Jason Barrett

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I recently appeared on a podcast, Monetize Media, to discuss the growth of Barrett Media. The conversation covered a lot of ground on business topics including finding your niche, knowing your audience and serving them the right content in the right locations, the evolution of the BSM Summit, and why consulting is a big part of our mix but can’t be the only thing we do.

Having spent nearly seven years growing this brand, I don’t claim to have all the answers. I just know what’s worked for us, and it starts with vision, hard work, consistency, and a willingness to adapt quickly. There are many areas we can be better in whether it’s social media, editing, SEO, sales, finding news, producing creative original content or adding more staff. Though there’s always work to be done and challenges to overcome, when you’re doing something you love and you’re motivated to wake up each day doing it, that to me is success.

But lately there’s one part of the job that I haven’t enjoyed – the hiring process. Fortunately in going through it, I was able to get to know Arky Shea. He’s a good guy, talented writer, and fan of the industry, and I’m thrilled to share that he’s joining us as BSM’s new night time editor. I’ll have a few other announcements to make later this month, but in the meantime, if you’re qualified to be an editor or social media manager, I’m still going through the process to add those two positions to our brand. You can learn more about both jobs by clicking here.

Working for an independent digital brand like ours is different from working for a corporation. You communicate directly with yours truly, and you work remotely on a personal computer, relying on your eyes, ears and the radio, television, and internet to find content. Because our work appears online, you have to enjoy writing, and understand and have a passion for the media industry, the brands who produce daily content, and the people who bring those brands to life. We receive a lot of interest from folks who see the words ‘sports’ and ‘news’ in our brand names and assume they’re going to cover games or political beats. They quickly discover that that’s not what we do nor are we interested in doing it.

If you follow us on social media, have visited our website or receive our newsletters, you’ve likely seen us promoting openings with the brand. I’ve even bought ads on Indeed, and been lucky enough to have a few industry folks share the posts on social. We’re in a good place and trying to make our product better, so to do that, we need more help. But over the past two months, Demetri Ravanos and I have easily done 50-60 calls, and it’s been eye opening to see how many mistakes get made during the hiring process.

Receiving applications from folks who don’t have a firm grasp of what we do is fine. That happens everywhere. Most of the time we weed those out. It’s no different than when a PD gets an application for a top 5 market hosting gig from a retail employee who’s never spoken on a microphone. The likelihood of that person being the right fit for a role without any experience of how to do the job is very slim. What’s been puzzling though is seeing how many folks reach out to express interest in opportunities, only to discover they’re not prepared, not informed or not even interested in the role they’ve applied for.

For instance, one applicant told me on a call ‘I’m not interested in your job but I knew getting you on the phone would be hard, and I figured this would help me introduce myself because I know I’m a great host, and I’d like you to put me on the radar with programmers for future jobs.’ I had another send a cover letter that was addressed to a different company and person, and a few more applied for FT work only to share that they can’t work FT, weren’t interested in the work that was described in the position, didn’t know anything about our brand but needed a gig, were looking for a confidence boost after losing a job or they didn’t have a computer and place to operate.

At first I thought this might be an exclusive issue only we were dealing with. After all, our brand and the work we do is different from what happens inside of a radio or TV station. In some cases, folks may have meant well and intended something differently than what came out. But after talking to a few programmers about some of these things during the past few weeks, I’ve been stunned to hear how many similar horror stories exist. One top programmer told me hiring now is much harder than it was just five years ago.

I was told stories of folks applying for a producer role at a station and declining an offer unless the PD added air time to the position. One person told a hiring manager they couldn’t afford not to hire them because their ratings were tanking. One PD was threatened for not hiring an interested candidate, and another received a resume intended for the competing radio station and boss. I even saw one social example last week of a guy telling a PD to call him because his brand was thin on supporting talent.

Those examples I just shared are bad ideas if you’re looking to work for someone who manages a respected brand. I realize everyone is different, and what clicks with one hiring manager may not with another, but if you have the skills to do a job, I think you’ll put yourself in a better position by avoiding these 5 mistakes below. If you’re looking for other ways to enhance your chances of landing an opportunity, I recommend you click here.

Educate Yourself Before Applying – take some time to read the job description, and make sure it aligns with your skillset and what you’re looking to do professionally before you apply. Review the company’s body of work and the people who work there. Do you think this is a place you’d enjoy being at? Does it look like a job that you’d gain personal and professional fulfillment from? Are you capable of satisfying the job requirements? Could it potentially put you on the path to greater opportunities? If most of those produce a yes, it’s likely a situation to consider.

Proofread Your Email or Cover Letter and Resume – If the first impression you give a hiring manager is that you can’t spell properly, and you address them and their brand by the wrong names, you’re telling them to expect more mistakes if they hire you. Being detail oriented is important in the media business. If this is your introduction to someone and they have a job you’re interested in, you owe it to yourself to go through your materials thoroughly before you press send. If you can have someone else put an extra set of eyes on your introduction to protect you from committing a major blunder even better.

Don’t Waste People’s Time – You’d be annoyed if a company put you through a 3-4 week process only to tell you they didn’t see you as a viable candidate right? Well, it works the other way too. If you’re not seriously interested in the job or you’re going into the process hoping to change the job description later, don’t apply. If the fit isn’t right or the financials don’t work, that’s OK. Express that. People appreciate transparency. Sometimes they may even call you back in the future when other openings become available. But if you think someone is going to help you after you wasted their time or lied to them, trust me, they won’t.

Don’t Talk Like An Expert About Things You Don’t Know – Do you know why a station’s ratings or revenue is down? Are you aware of the company’s goals and if folks on the inside are satisfied or upset? Is the hiring manager someone you know well enough to have a candid professional conversation with? If the answers are no, you’re not helping your case by talking about things you don’t have full knowledge of. You have no idea how the manager you’re talking to has been dealing with the challenges he or she is faced with so don’t pretend you do. Just because someone wrote an article about it and you read it doesn’t mean you’re informed.

Use Social Wisely – Being frustrated that you didn’t get a job is fine. Everyone goes through it. Asking your friends and followers for advice on social of how you could’ve made a better case for yourself is good. That shows you’re trying to learn from the process to be better at it next time. But taking to social to write a book report blasting the hiring manager, their brand, and/or their company over a move that didn’t benefit you just tells them they made the right move by not bringing you in. Chances are, they won’t be calling you in the future either.

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Would Local Radio Benefit From Hosting An Annual Upfront?

Jason Barrett

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How many times have you heard this sentence uttered at conferences or in one of the trades; radio has to do a better job of telling its story. Sounds reasonable enough right? After all, your brands and companies stand a better chance of being more consumed and invested in the more that others know about them.

But what specifically about your brand’s story matters to those listening or spending money on it? Which outlets are you supposed to share that news with to grow your listenership and advertising? And who is telling the story? Is it someone who works for your company and has a motive to advance a professional agenda, or someone who’s independent and may point out a few holes in your strategy, execution, and results?

As professionals working in the media business, we’re supposed to be experts in the field of communications. But are we? We’re good at relaying news when it makes us look good or highlights a competitor coming up short. How do we respond though when the story isn’t told the we want it to? Better yet, how many times do sports/news talk brands relay information that isn’t tied to quarterly ratings, revenue or a new contract being signed? We like to celebrate the numbers that matter to us and our teams, but we don’t spend much time thinking about if those numbers matter to the right groups – the audience and the advertisers.

Having covered the sports and news media business for the past seven years, and published nearly eighteen thousand pieces of content, you’d be stunned if you saw how many nuggets of information get sent to us from industry folks looking for publicity vs. having to chase people down for details or read things on social media or listen to or watch shows to promote relevant material. Spoiler alert, most of what we produce comes from digging. There are a handful of outlets and PR folks who are great, and five or six PD’s who do an excellent job consistently promoting news or cool things associated with their brands and people. Some talent are good too at sharing content or tips that our website may have an interest in.

Whether I give the green light to publish the material or not, I appreciate that folks look for ways to keep their brands and shows on everyone’s radar. Brand leaders and marketing directors should be battling daily in my opinion for recognition anywhere and everywhere it’s available. If nobody is talking about your brand then you have to give them a reason to.

I’m writing this column today because I just spent a day in New York City at the Disney Upfront, which was attended by a few thousand advertising professionals. Though I’d have preferred a greater focus on ESPN than what was offered, I understand that a company the size of Disney with so many rich content offerings is going to have to condense things or they’d literally need a full week of Upfronts to cover it all. They’re also trying to reach buyers and advertising professionals who have interests in more than just sports.

What stood out to me while I was in attendance was how much detail went into putting on a show to inform, entertain, and engage advertising professionals. Disney understands the value of telling its story to the right crowd, and they rolled out the heavy hitters for it. There was a strong mix of stars, executives, promotion of upcoming shows, breaking news about network deals, access to the people responsible for bringing advertising to life, and of course, free drinks. It was easy for everyone in the room to gain an understanding of the company’s culture, vision, success, and plans to capture more market share.

As I sat in my seat, I wondered ‘why doesn’t radio do this on a local level‘? I’m not talking about entertaining clients in a suite, having a business dinner for a small group of clients or inviting business owners and agency reps to the office for a rollout of forthcoming plans. I’m talking about creating an annual event that showcases the power of a cluster, the stars who are connected to the company’s various brands, unveiling new shows, promotions and deals, and using the event as a driver to attract more business.

Too often I see our industry rely on things that have worked in the past. We assume that if it worked before there’s no need to reinvent the wheel for the client. Sometimes that’s even true. Maybe the advertiser likes to keep things simple and communicate by phone, email or in-person lunch meetings. Maybe a creative powerpoint presentation is all you need to get them to say yes. If it’s working and you feel that’s the best way forward to close business, continue with that approach. There’s more than one way to reach the finish line.

But I believe that most people like being exposed to fresh ideas, and given a peak behind the curtain. The word ‘new’ excites people. Why do you think Apple introduces a new iPhone each year or two. We lose sight sometimes of how important our brands and people are to those not inside the walls of our offices. We forget that whether a client spends ten thousand or ten million dollars per year with our company, they still like to be entertained. When you allow business people to feel the excitement associated with your brand’s upcoming events, see the presentations on a screen, and hear from and interact with the stars involved in it, you make them feel more special. I think you stand a better chance of closing deals and building stronger relationships that way.

Given that many local clusters have relationships with hotels, theaters, teams, restaurants, etc. there’s no reason you can’t find a central location, and put together an advertiser appreciation day that makes partners feel valued. You don’t have to rent out Pier 36 like Disney or secure the field at a baseball stadium to make a strong impression. We show listeners they’re valued regularly by giving away tickets, cash, fan appreciation parties, etc. and guess what, it works! Yes there are expenses involved putting on events, and no manager wants to hear about spending money without feeling confident they’ll generate a return on investment. That said, taking calculated risks is essential to growing a business. Every day that goes by where you operate with a ‘relying on the past’ mindset, and refuse to invest in growth opportunities, is one that leaves open the door for others to make sure your future is less promising.

There are likely a few examples of groups doing a smaller scaled version of what I’m suggesting. If you’re doing this already, I’d love to hear about it. Hit me up through email at JBarrett@sportsradiopd.com. By and large though, I don’t see a lot of must-see, must-discuss events like this created that lead to a surplus of press, increased relationships, and most importantly, increased sales. Yet it can be done. Judging from some of the feedback I received yesterday talking to people in the room, it makes an impression, and it matters.

I don’t claim to know how many ad agency executives and buyers returned to the office from the Disney Upfront and reached out to sign new advertising deals with the company. What I am confident in is that Disney wouldn’t invest resources in creating this event nor would other national groups like NBC, FOX, CBS, WarnerMedia, etc. if they didn’t feel it was beneficial to their business. Rather than relying on ratings and revenue stories that serve our own interests, maybe we’d help ourselves more by allowing our partners and potential clients to experience what makes our brands special. It works with our listeners, and can work with advertisers too.

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