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Listeners Don’t Care About Us As Much As You Think

“If you don’t want to talk about shoddy pint glasses with a bartender, what makes you think they want to talk about NBA ratings with you?”

Demetri Ravanos



Some hosts will always be tempted to make their show all about themselves. I’ve written about that before. Hosts that prioritize their interests and ego over what their listeners want are constantly creating opportunities for those listeners to tune out.

BBC scraps plans to turn off FM radio | Daily Mail Online

Usually this mistake is the result of disregarding what you know about the market. It’s a waste of time to talk hockey in a market that isn’t passionate about the sport. It’s a waste of time to talk about the baseball postseason in a market that is locked in on college football.

There is one subject though that is a loser no matter where you are. The only reason hosts talk about it is their own ego.

It’s us. Your listeners care about you. They don’t care about the industry at large.

I’ve never understood why so many broadcasters think the average Joe cares about gossip and news in an industry they have no real connection to. It would be like going to a bar, starting a conversation with the bartender about the home team and then him pivoting the conversation to what company makes shoddy pint glasses.

Who the hell cares?

There is a whole segment of this business that I’ll call the “stick to sports unless you agree with me” crowd. For them, ratings prove something. People are still mad at Colin Kaepernick. The NBA is too worried about making a political statement and not worried enough about the quality of its product. You know the type.

I’m not going to tell you they are wrong. What I am going to tell you is for the most part, the audience doesn’t give a damn. Sure, there are plenty of people that agree with these hosts and enjoy a good confirmation bias bubble, but the larger slice of your audience pie would rather talk about last night’s game instead of how many people watched it and what that means for “the real America”.

ESPN is another fascination of some hosts – and this is all over the place. In some cases it’s the old “is ESPN too liberal?” argument. For others, it’s financial stories. “Does Disney want to dump ESPN”? “ESPN has another round of layoffs coming”.

Chris Low on Twitter: "Back on the ESPN campus.… "

You’re asking an awful lot of your audience when you go down that road. Most of them view ESPN executives and talent as rich celebrities. It’s hard enough to care about anyone else’s financial well-being or job security when you’re in the midst of the kind of economic uncertainty we are, let alone a millionaire’s.

When it comes to the biggest name in sports media, there is only one thing you can talk about that connects with your audience – what that talent had to say about the action on the field. Use audio. Call an analyst an idiot. Have someone from the network on to talk about a big story or upcoming game. Literally anything else is a waste of your listener’s time.

Let’s make one more thing perfectly clear. This is really important, so everyone huddle up and take a knee. Remember, helmet’s not a chair.

Unless you are in New York, YOUR 👏 LISTENERS 👏 DO 👏 NOT 👏 CARE 👏 ABOUT 👏 MIKE 👏 FRANCESA!

Is he a titan of our business? Yes. Is he past his glory days? Obviously. Is it always fun to make fun of old people? Of course! I enjoyed the Funhouse video clips as much as anyone else.

Here’s the thing though. Twitter isn’t real life. Hyper-targeted accounts can gain huge followings, because that is just sort of what the platform is. I grew up in Alabama. Most of my friends from back home, even the ones who listen to sports talk radio religiously, don’t know who Mike Francesa is.

We used to work with a station that was nowhere near New York. Literally, it was on the other side of the country. Every week they would do a bit highlighting something inaccurate or out of touch Francesa said. Every week I would make a note that basically said “what the hell are we doing?”. And every time I’d tune in the next week, there was that same bit.

All good stations do perception surveys to figure out what is working for them and what is not. If you’re a talent or a producer, your job is to pay attention to the results of those surveys and try to put their findings into practice.

Yes, it is important to be passionate about your content, but isn’t it more important to create content out of what your listeners are telling you they are passionate about?

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There is a major difference in you and “you” to our listeners. You, as an individual, are someone that matters to them. You, as an individual, are who they turn to learn about the team or sport they love. You, the sports media, is just an industry that isn’t their own. If you don’t want to talk about shoddy pint glasses with a bartender, what makes you think they want to talk about NBA ratings with you?

BSM Writers

Being Wrong On-Air Isn’t A Bad Thing

…if you feel yourself getting uncomfortable over the fact that you were wrong, stop to realize that’s your pride talking. Your ego. And if people call you out for being wrong, it’s actually a good sign.




In the press conference after the Warriors won their fourth NBA title in eight years, Steph Curry referenced a very specific gesture from a very specific episode of Get Up that aired in August 2021.

“Clearly remember some experts and talking heads putting up the big zero,” Curry said, then holding up a hollowed fist to one eye, looking through it as if it were a telescope.

“How many championships we would have going forward because of everything we went through.”

Yep, Kendrick Perkins and Domonique Foxworth each predicted the Warriors wouldn’t win a single title over the course of the four-year extension Curry had just signed. The Warriors won the NBA title and guess what? Curry gets to gloat.

The funny part to me was the people who felt Perkins or Foxworth should be mad or embarrassed. Why? Because they were wrong?

That’s part of the game. If you’re a host or analyst who is never wrong in a prediction, it’s more likely that you’re excruciatingly boring than exceedingly smart. Being wrong is not necessarily fun, but it’s not a bad thing in this business.

You shouldn’t try to be wrong, but you shouldn’t be afraid of it, either. And if you are wrong, own it. Hold your L as I’ve heard the kids say. Don’t try to minimize it or explain it or try to point out how many other people are wrong, too. Do what Kendrick Perkins did on Get Up the day after the Warriors won the title.

“When they go on to win it, guess what?” He said, sitting next to Mike Greenberg. “You have to eat that.”

Do not do what Perkins did later that morning on First Take.

Perkins: “I come on here and it’s cool, right? Y’all can pull up Perk receipts and things to that nature. And then you give other people a pass like J-Will.”

Jason Williams: “I don’t get passes on this show.”

Perkins: “You had to, you had a receipt, too, because me and you both picked the Memphis Grizzlies to beat the Golden State Warriors, but I’m OK with that. I’m OK with that. Go ahead Stephen A. I know you’re about to have fun and do your thing. Go ahead.”

Stephen A. Smith: “First of all, I’m going to get serious for a second with the both of you, especially you, Perk, and I want to tell you something right now. Let me throw myself on Front Street, we can sit up there and make fun of me. You know how many damn Finals predictions I got wrong? I don’t give a damn. I mean, I got a whole bunch of them wrong. Ain’t no reason to come on the air and defend yourself. Perk, listen man. You were wrong. And we making fun, and Steph Curry making fun of you. You laugh at that my brother. He got you today. That’s all. He got you today.”

It’s absolutely great advice, and if you feel yourself getting uncomfortable over the fact that you were wrong, stop to realize that’s your pride talking. Your ego. And if people call you out for being wrong, it’s actually a good sign. It means they’re not just listening, but holding on to what you say. You matter. Don’t ruin that by getting defensive and testy.


I did a double-take when I saw Chris Russo’s list of the greatest QB-TE combinations ever on Wednesday and this was before I ever got to Tom Brady-to-Rob Gronkowski listed at No. 5. It was actually No. 4 that stopped me cold: Starr-Kramer.

My first thought: Jerry Kramer didn’t play tight end.

My second thought: I must be unaware of this really good tight end from the Lombardi-era Packers.

After further review, I don’t think that’s necessarily true, either. Ron Kramer did play for the Lombardi-era Packers, and he was a good player. He caught 14 scoring passes in a three-year stretch where he really mattered, but he failed to catch a single touchdown pass in six of the 10 NFL seasons he played. He was named first-team All-Pro once and finished his career with 229 receptions.

Now this is not the only reason that this is an absolutely terrible list. It is the most egregious, however. Bart Starr and Kramer are not among the 25 top QB-TE combinations in NFL history let alone the top five. And if you’re to believe Russo’s list, eighty percent of the top tandems played in the NFL in the 30-year window from 1958 to 1987 with only one tandem from the past 30 years meriting inclusion when this is the era in which tight end production has steadily climbed.

Then I found out that Russo is making $10,000 per appearance on “First Take.”

My first thought: You don’t have to pay that much to get a 60-something white guy to grossly exaggerate how great stuff used to be.

My second thought: That might be the best $10,000 ESPN has ever spent.

Once a week, Russo comes on and draws a reaction out of a younger demographic by playing a good-natured version of Dana Carvey’s Grumpy Old Man. Russo groans to JJ Redick about the lack of fundamental basketball skills in today’s game or he proclaims the majesty of a tight end-quarterback pairing that was among the top five in its decade, but doesn’t sniff the top five of all-time.

And guess what? It works. Redick rolls his eyes, asks Russo which game he’s watching, and on Wednesday he got me to spend a good 25 minutes looking up statistics for some Packers tight end I’d never heard of. Not satisfied with that, I then moved on to determine Russo’s biggest omission from the list, which I’ve concluded is Philip Rivers and Antonio Gates, who connected for 89 touchdowns over 15 seasons, which is only 73 more touchdowns than Kramer scored in his career. John Elway and Shannon Sharpe should be on there, too.

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BSM Writers

Money Isn’t The Key Reason Why Sellers Sell Sports Radio

I started selling sports radio because I enjoyed working with clients who loved sports, our station, and wanted to reach fans with our commercials and promotions.

Jeff Caves



Radio Sales

A radio salesperson’s value being purely tied to money is overrated to me. Our managers all believe that our main motivation for selling radio is to make more money. They see no problem in asking us to sell more in various ways because it increases our paycheck. We are offered more money to sell digital, NTR, to sell another station in the cluster, weekend remotes, new direct business, or via the phone in 8 hours. 

But is that why you sell sports radio?

In 2022, the Top 10 highest paying sales jobs are all in technology. Not a media company among them. You could argue that if it were all about making money, we should quit and work in tech. Famous bank robber Willie Sutton was asked why he robbed twenty banks over twenty years. He reportedly said,” that’s where the money is”. Sutton is the classic example of a person who wanted what money could provide and was willing to do whatever it took to get it, BUT he also admitted he liked robbing banks and felt alive. So, Sutton didn’t do it just for the money.

A salesperson’s relationship with money and prestige is also at the center of the play Death of a Salesman. Willy Loman is an aging and failing salesman who decides he is worth more dead than alive and kills himself in an auto accident giving his family the death benefit from his life insurance policy. Loman wasn’t working for the money. He wanted the prestige of what money could buy for himself and his family. 

Recently, I met a woman who spent twelve years selling radio from 1999-2011. I asked her why she left her senior sales job. She said she didn’t like the changes in the industry. Consolidation was at its peak, and most salespeople were asked to do more with less help. She described her radio sales job as one with “golden handcuffs”. The station paid her too much money to quit even though she hated the job. She finally quit. The job wasn’t worth the money to her.

I started selling sports radio because I enjoyed working with clients who loved sports, our station, and wanted to reach fans with our commercials and promotions. I never wanted to sell anything else and specifically enjoyed selling programming centered around reaching fans of Boise State University football. That’s it. Very similar to what Mark Glynn and his KJR staff experience when selling Kraken hockey and Huskies football.  

I never thought selling sports radio was the best way to make money. I just enjoyed the way I could make money. I focused on the process and what I enjoyed about the position—the freedom to come and go and set my schedule for the most part. I concentrated on annual contracts and clients who wanted to run radio commercials over the air to get more traffic and build their brand.

Most of my clients were local direct and listened to the station. Some other sales initiatives had steep learning curves, were one-day events or contracted out shaky support staff. In other words, the money didn’t motivate me enough. How I spent my time was more important. 

So, if you are in management, maybe consider why your sales staff is working at the station. Because to me, they’d be robbing banks if it were all about making lots of money.  

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BSM Writers

Media Noise: BSM Podcast Network Round Table



Demetri Ravanos welcomes the two newest members of the BSM Podcast Network to the show. Brady Farkas and Stephen Strom join for a roundtable discussion that includes the new media, Sage Steele and Roger Goodell telling Congress that Dave Portnoy isn’t banned from NFL events.

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