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Lessons For Those Who Have Been Fired

Before you decide to get your real estate license, sell insurance, or dabble into public relations, have an honest conversation with yourself. Will you really have the same passion for doing something else that you had working in radio?

Ryan Maguire




“I’ve given it a lot of thought and I’ve decided that today is your last day.”

“This conversation will not be pleasant.”

“We’ve decided not to renew your contract.”

“Unfortunately, the company has decided to eliminate your position.”

“I want to thank you for everything you’ve done and wish you the best of luck.”

If you’ve worked in radio long enough (or any media company, for that matter), odds are you’ve heard one or more of the above phrases.  In my 28 years working in the audio content business, I’ve spoken and had those phrases spoken to me on more than one occasion.

As someone that’s been on both sides of a termination, allow me to share some valuable things I’ve learned along the way as we head into a very uncertain 2021. 


In every instance where I had to part company with an employee or an employer, I can look directly at the company’s finances or the economic climate as the primary catalyst. 

Even in instances where I wanted to move on from a talent or a show, my GM’s eyes would often light up when I told them how much money the move would save as a result. 

In that respect, there is some solace one can take upon learning they no longer have a job.  Financial struggles are largely out of your control.  That certainly rings true in 2020, where the pandemic driven recession has devastated the business landscape on so many levels. 

For those that have been fired, there is a good chance that you’d still have a job if the financial health of the industry were better. 

Try not to take it personally.


It goes without saying that you should never burn bridges.  I’ll take that a step further.  Find ways to reinforce that bridge with kindness, even if the people who let you go don’t deserve it. 

Send a note to your boss (and their bosses) thanking them for the opportunity.  Reach out to your colleagues and wish them all the best of luck.  Send a statement to the trades that conveys your appreciation. 

Its been said that you only have one chance to make a first impression.  Well, you also have only one chance to make a last impression.  Make it a positive one.  Let the final thing your previous employer remembers about you is that you were the person who was classy on your way out the door.  

Silence is not golden.  If you go dark and say nothing, odds are the last thing your employer will remember about you is the reason they let you go.  That won’t bode well when they eventually get a call from someone who wants to hire you.   Being proactive to show your professionalism increases your chances of them saying: “You know, it didn’t work out for them here, but they are a good person and I appreciated them.” 


I remember when I left KIRO in August of 2019, one of my closest friends gave me advice I should have heeded.

“Take some time off.  You have to give yourself a chance to get over this.”

Of course, staying busy has always been in my nature.  So, I didn’t take that advice.  It was a mistake. 

Instead, I spent my days on the phone.  Networking, applying for jobs, putting myself out there as much as I could.  I wanted to move on to the next challenge and put my previous gig behind me. 

All it did was make things worse.

I interviewed for seven jobs and was turned down seven times.

I sent so many texts and e-mails to my industry colleagues TRYING to shoehorn myself into a position that even some of my closest contacts stopped responding.

I was putting far too much pressure on myself (and others) because I had not allowed myself to get over the job that I no longer had.  Moving on was the only way to put it in the rearview mirror.   

I’m also thoroughly convinced that all this added pressure directly affected how I performed in job interviews.  If there’s one thing managers can smell, its desperation…and it gives off a bad odor. 

Depending on your financial situation, its not always feasible to go without a paycheck for an extended period.  However, bills can always be paid later.  Your mental well-being is far more important.  Even giving yourself a week can make a world of difference for your sanity.  

Do something you enjoy.  Stay off social media.  Don’t think about what’s next.  You’ll have plenty of time to ponder that. 


I was talking recently with a friend who was a long-time radio veteran and ran multiple stations in large markets.  He’s been out of the business for several years.

“I’m done with radio,” he said.  Then he went into a long-winded diatribe about the executives he didn’t like, the layoffs, how “local” is being vastly re-defined, etc. 

What I didn’t tell him (but quietly thought to myself) is that he’d get back into the biz in a heartbeat if he was offered the right job.

Often, the words the terminated masses will tell themselves are “never again” with regards to going back into radio.  Hell, I’ve said it on more than one occasion.  Sometimes out of spite.  Other times, it was an attempt to be practical given the current state of the industry.  It’s no secret that there aren’t as many gigs as there used to be and what gigs exist don’t pay nearly what they used to. 

However, as time went on, I knew that I was just kidding myself. 

For me, it was never about the money, the awards, or the fame.  Granted, I was fortunate to do well in all these categories at one point of another.  At the end of the day, I went into radio because I LOVED it.  My career choice has been and always shall be a passion project.  Even as radio goes through its continued metamorphosis of consolidation, digitization, and regionalization, that passion has never waned.  It never will.

Sure, radio is a fickle mistress.  It has dragged me across the country, forced me to work long hours and endure sleepless nights.  I’ve had those moments where I told myself and others that I was walking away.  But deep down, I know I would never have the passion for doing anything but creating great audio content.  That’s never going to change.

So, before you decide to get your real estate license, sell insurance, or dabble into public relations, have an honest conversation with yourself.  Will you really have the same passion for doing something else that you had working in radio?  

It’s not a sin to want to get back in.

BNM Writers

Should The News Be Minimized on The Holidays?

“I do wonder who is watching or listening or reading and what the return on efforting news programming on holidays really is.”

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This is not by any means a new topic of discussion but I do enjoy bringing it up and batting it around because I think it’s worthy of regular consideration and deliberation. Perhaps it deserves even just a fresh batch of whining and complaining by those of us stuck in a newsroom, in front of a camera or microphone or standing out somewhere in the cold.

There’s no debate that what we do has a level of importance that fluctuates from time to time. There are countless professions that we cannot do without for even a portion of a single day. That said, working the holidays is not unfamiliar or even a question for many people out there.

I, myself have spent most of my adult life in professions where working on Thanksgiving, Christmas, the High Holidays, Independence Day among others was just part of the job. It still amazes me how many people would react in astonishment when I declined an invitation or mentioned in conversation that I was working that day.

Like they couldn’t comprehend the possibility. Must be nice.

Now, let’s be clear about this; covering a parade or a holiday festival or religious services on a particular day is not what I’m focusing on here. Imagine the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade or New Year’s Eve or the 4th of July fireworks without reporters and crew coverage.

More people would actually have to go to these things.

No, I’m talking about regularly scheduled newscasts and field reports on these mornings, afternoons and evenings.


I don’t see it.

More specifically, who is measuring the need for this programming? I cannot identify sitting behind a desk (probably inside an office…what’s that like?) and concluding that there must be 4:00pm-6:30pm newscasts on Thanksgiving Day.

5am news on New Year’s Day is out and out sadism.

“Good morning and Happy New Year…here’s what’s happened in the twenty-three minutes since you went to bed.”

Yes, by all means, let’s open our presents with the soothing tones of morning drive news in the background or lounge in the living room after the two-ton turkey dinner and watch the daily rundown of criminal activity lovingly framed in holiday graphics.

Do people want to drive to Grandma’s house while listening to the latest in Tuesday’s home invasion- assault investigation, this morning’s hit and run fatality or the city council vote on funding a halfway house near the elementary school?

Actually, the inspiration for this semi-rant comes from a conversation I had with a woman I was speaking with about holiday getaway travel. She very innocently asked me why there is news on the holidays. “Who is watching…who is listening on a day like that?” I told her I really couldn’t say. Of course, this was someone who told me she didn’t even pick up a newspaper or peruse social media for a news update on any given holiday.

“On Christmas”, she said, “no news is good news.”

To a significant degree, I’m on board with that. I do wonder who is watching or listening or reading and what the return on efforting news programming on holidays really is.

This is not about those having to work although employee consideration should be part of the equation. There will always be the need to have someone in the newsroom but minimizing that requirement could never be a bad thing.

Many operations do work with reduced staff during the holidays and that’s great. Twenty-years ago the radio station group I worked for dropped most programming during the year-end holidays, simulcasting holiday music across all the stations only cutting in with station IDs, tracked greetings from staff and news updates only if necessary.

I suppose one could argue that people need to know what’s going on all the time so we are providing a necessary service but really, everything we do is on-demand whether we like it or not. Nobody is listening or watching or reading unless they make a conscious effort to do so. They have to turn the TV on and hit the channel, dial the car radio and click on the website. We have no say.

For me, somebody somewhere has to show me that there’s a need and a want for what we do on those special days and at those special times. Convince me.

In the meantime, move the turkey and stuffing closer to my side of the table and keep the cranberry sauce and yams over on your end.

And I’ll be up bright and early talking to the Black Friday shopping crowd.

Don’t get me started.

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BNM Writers

Seth Leibsohn Expected to Move to Phoenix, Didn’t Expect Radio Show

“There wasn’t a huge demand for a white male teaching Aristotle’s teachings. I kind of like the idea I can still teach on the air.

Jim Cryns




We’re all made up of a unique genetic recipe. Take a graduate student of political philosophy, add a pinch of love of contemporary politics, a dash of popular culture, maybe a trumpet, and you have Seth Leibsohn.

“I was a good trumpet player in high school,” Leibsohn said. Still, that alone wasn’t enough for him to pursue it as a career, even though his parents were fine with him chasing something he enjoyed, even supportive. “Some parents try to push you into a career, but my parents never did. I thought I might be able to play the trumpet as a career, but ultimately decided I wasn’t as good as my trumpet heroes. I’ve heard golfers have hung it up in a similar way.”

Quoting Del Griffith in Planes, Trains and Automobiles, ‘The finest line a man’ll walk is between success at work and success at home.’ To be truly happy you’ve got to have both. Seth Leibsohn couldn’t agree more.

“I don’t know many people who are thrilled with what they do for a living,” Leibsohn continued. “I believe you work to pay bills, not for life satisfaction. Billy Joel said there is no magic secret and everybody has happiness within themselves. If you’re truly happy with what you do, you have it all beat.”

The Seth Leibsohn Show airs live on KKNT 960 The Patriot in Phoenix from 3:00-6:00 PM weekdays. Then the show is replayed as a podcast. “The podcast is essentially the show I do,” Leibsohn said. “It’s fun. I never thought I’d be on the radio. I started in D.C. with a national show with Bill Bennett, The Bill Bennett Show, as co-host and guest host.”

You may recall Bennett was appointed the drug czar in 1989 under President George H.W. Bush.  Bennett still does a podcast and Leibsohn appears as a guest about once a month. He was Bennett’s chief of staff for many years.

Leibsohn decided to move back to Phoenix in 2011 to take care of his parents.

“After I arrived I was approached to host my own show,” he said. “I like that it doesn’t have to be relegated to a local audience. I get calls from Texas, Chicago, Ukraine. Leibsohn describes himself as a ‘different’ radio host, “I started in academia,” he explained. “There wasn’t a huge demand for a white male teaching Aristotle’s teachings. I kind of like the idea I can still teach on the air. The show is a vital seminar, with a bigger classroom.”

Leibsohn works hard on the show as he doesn’t have a producer. “I have to find my own guests, which I average about one each day. Television show hosts don’t have to track down and book their own guests. I start reading from the moment I wake up, searching for something interesting, a guest that can provide some insight to a topic.”

He’s long been a staunch advocate against the legalization of marijuana. He headed the group ‘Arizonans for Responsible Drug Policy’, which was instrumental in preventing the legalization of marijuana in Arizona. He has co-authored several articles with Bennett regarding the dangers of marijuana, which was picked up by numerous newspapers including the Los Angeles Times and The Tampa Tribune.

Doing whatever he can to rid the streets of drugs and the pollution of our children is essentially what make’s Libsohn tick. It may be more accurate to say it drives him.

When talking about ridding streets of drugs throughout the country, I was impressed that Leibsohn wasn’t hypocritical. He said he wasn’t above having a good time with friends in college, but recognized there was a time to stop.

“I partied with the best of them,” he said. “Then I saw four of my best friends, who were both far smarter than me academically, ultimately fail in their lives. They just couldn’t give up the partying and substances and succumbed to a lot of drug use.”

Another bolt of realization about the destruction of drugs for Leibsohn stems from his sister struggling with substances her entire life. “I guess I had more of a vector about what it could do to you. Drugs cause so many problems in our society. It’s an ongoing battle to protect our children.”

Working on reducing substance abuse in America has long been a passion for Leibsohn. Working with Bennett helped fuel that desire. Leibsohn spent time working for the Higher America initiative with Jeane Kirkpatrick.

Never a fan of Hilary Clinton, Leibsohn said he agrees with the former First Lady on one thing.

“Hilary said Mexico is a problem regarding illegal drugs, but if the citizens of America didn’t want the drugs, it would be a problem. People want this crud. Since we lost the anti-drug messaging system in America, the problems have spiraled out of control.”

Remember the old ad, ‘This is your brains on drugs?’ That’s the messaging Leibsohn is talking about. Leibsohn said when Bennett was drug czar, 10,000 Americans were dying each year. Since then the death toll has increased 1,000 percent.

“We reduced drug use by 65 percent in 1992,” Leibsohn said. “I attribute that to the messaging. It was hugely important. We embedded the anti-drug message at the movies, in schools, there was a Hollywood sobriety chic. We did for drugs what mothers did for drunk driving.”

Leibsohn cites Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. when he wrote, ‘Human desires increase with their means of gratification.’

“The narration in the television show Narco opens with the narrator talking about cocaine. He said they had a supply problem keeping up with the demand for the drug in Miami.”

Leibsohn intended to run for Congress in 2018, but his staff screwed-the-pooch.

“My campaign management didn’t get enough signatures,” Leibsohn said. “I made sure everyone who contributed to my campaign got their money back.” He said he has no biting need to run for office again.

Our conversation swerved into another contentious topic–immigration from Mexico. Leibsohn said our immigration problem is currently out of control.

“There are a lot of reasons for the problem,” he said. “I don’t think there’s one single answer or solution. I do know we’re giving billions of dollars annually to illegal immigrants. When the monthly numbers come out regarding the prison population in Arizona, the illegal immigrants count for a huge portion of those criminals.”

He said there have been good examples of cleaning up cities, like New York. “There are things that work,” Leibsohn explained. “We have to replicate those efforts and dump the things that don’t work. Indianapolis is another city that turned things around. There are theories that work when applied.”

Leibsohn spoke of disparate impact, when policies and rules have a disproportionate impact on a particular group.

“I think a lot of Left-wing prosecutors abhor statistics of racial minorities. In effect they turn a blind eye, a deaf ear when it comes to crime. I had hoped by now we could get beyond race, see policies enacted in my lifetime.”

We also talked about what constitutes American conservatism, which is delineated by low taxes, free markets, deregulation, privatization, and reduced government spending and government debt. Leibsohn thinks the definition of American Conservatism is more nebulous than that.

“I think American Conservatism has never had a good definition,” he said. “Perhaps the most prominent recent conservative was William F. Buckley Jr. He never wrote a book on American Conservatism as he said it was too diverse.”

Regarding pinpointing what American Conservatism actually is, Leibsohn said it’s really clay in the hands of those you ask. “Some say it’s a group that believes in limited government,” he explained. “There are some who will fold religious beliefs into that, some may add sociology.”

He said throughout his life, he’s always been in search of discovering the meaning.

“In Buckleys’ National Review Magazine, he debated this all the time,” Leibsohn explained. “He had always been in search of the meaning. In his magazine, Buckley debated this all the time. In my own view it should be a movement based on America’s founding fathers ethos–equity and liberty. There’s not a lot of agreement on these things today.”

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BNM Writers

Producers Podcast: Andrew Marsh, 101 ESPN

Brady Farkas




Andrew Marsh of 101 ESPN in St. Louis details the unorthodox background that has helped him thrive in the producer’s chair for The Fast Lane.

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